I have to say the bible has become a complete new book to me. Literally no longer do I read what I need to be I now see who it is I am. Big difference that does not come from mental ascent but by revelation of the rhema word of God. I will say this just to demonstrate a point. I can see that to think God wants to bless a Christian is a lie from the pit of hell. A lie that has kept many bound up for years, chasing a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Once you have Jesus in your life understand God does NOT want to bless you. Blessing is now not what we get, it is who we are! One comes from a psychopathic soul and the other flows from identity. One is all about me the other is all about who He is in, through and around me. A soul believer will automatically default to now saying something like, “yes that is the same thing, my life will see blessing when in Christ”. That is not what is being said here.

I was reading 1 Corinthians 1:13 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

This verse is a great contrast of where we have been and where we are going. In context Paul talks about demonstration of the power of God, but here we would be carnal to limit this to signs and wonders. Paul in chapter 2 talks about demonstration of the Spirit. He was not running a side show to entertain Jews. Remember in chapter 1 Paul made it very clear he is not talking about signs that Jews seek. So in this passage Paul is whispering a spirit truth, problem is we often do not hear it as we operate like the Greeks he spoke about wanting knowledge or wisdom. Paul has very clearly laid the groundwork to understand what he is saying and it could maybe be said this way.

No person will ever hear this within their ears. He says NO you can’t learn wisdom of God and NO signs just don’t do it either. So what is it he is talking about? If we can teach the anointing or spirit lifestyle with words we have made the cross of Christ of no effect.

Paul meant he walks in the spirit and only those with spirit ears hear. He did not get caught up in baptizing as he knew it was futile if there was no shift to hear Spirit. If a person is not born of the spirit and now living through the new baby lifestyle of the spirit. All we do is make the cross of Christ of no effect. Problem is many birth a new baby and are born again in the spirit, then they hand that baby to a psychotic soul to raise. That is why many love the sign and manifestations, they love prophecy and healing and have convinced themselves it is for Jesus. They miss the point they feed their soul instead of realizing the spirit lifestyle makes prophecy, knowledge, tongues, healing etc WHO THEY ARE. Not what they do! Yes Paul says he talks wisdom with the mature, but the mature are not people studied in the knowledge God. The mature walk by the spirit understand the spirit truth that the bible is, who they are being revealed.

I can see the minute we think we have something to say we are feeding into the souls psychopathic ways. When my words consist of “I” then all I am saying is I live by the soul. When my attitude is I can teach something then all I have is a psychopathic soul. When I think I must take the land I am a deceived psychopath, a spirit man is being revealed and is dominion as he is revealed. Remember the medical world says, no psychopath has ever changed or ever even seen they are psychopathic. Paul was serious when he said ”I know nothing” if in all our years of learning about Jesus and what He likes and does not like why cannot we understanding our COMPLETE lack of understanding of God. Sure in my spirit revelation is revealed but once I turn that to knowledge and live out of it, OUCH!

BTW some Wikipedia points that define a psychopath. Amazing how these traits exist in the political out workings of manmade religion. Also how many of these traits can be applied to what many call a walk of faith. In man-made religion we always have grandiose self worth, superficial charm, our greatest lie is to ourselves and we manipulate people for Jesus. Usually such show no remorse for the pain they inflict when people do not see it their way. They demonize the people and it excuses treating people like the devil. Emotionally shallow, callous and lacking empathy. Never accepting responsibility for their actions as after all they hear God better than anyone else. Needing constant stimulation and so many in religion are prone to boredom and constantly need stimulation of some kind to feed something in themselves. Hence many religious systems have to have a constant program of activity to stimulate the psychopathic soul. They have a parasitic lifestyle, needing those in their community to reassure and enable them. Lacking long term or realistic goals they are impulsive and irresponsible.

Now of course all that is relative but praise the Lord the direct opposite in the spirit is 1 Corinthians 13 and a love that the soul can only dream about or try and copy.

Christians don’t get blessed they are blessing. If we look for blessing we contain such.

Today I am realizing how we settle for a broken down life. Living out of the past can indeed be a shackle and today a greater understanding of the limitations we place on ourselves is evident.
Like all manifestations in a Holy Spirit life we take a movement of the Holy Spirit and limit it through our soul. We have made works of the Holy Spirit something we try and get our head around to further or increase such. But when we realize we are tongues, we are prophecy and we are even things like repentance we understand in our spirits we are also things like prosperity and blessing. Now we try to release that prosperity to meet our wants and needs but in reality when approached through the spirit the carnal wants are gone and it becomes “what is revealed”. One sure fire test to see if we understand a default of the Spirit is to ask ourselves, do I repent when I sin or am I repentance? I use repentance as it is the most obviously offensive to our religious mindsets. Rather than be offended is there any way we could take that to the Lord lay it before Him and see what comes from his heart. Repentance is who a spirit filled believer “is” it is not what he does.

So back to the revealing. We can stop “what is revealed” in us by allowing our soul to camp out where it has always been. To me I am understanding our soul is a perfect counterfeit of the spirit but it lacks the power. Our soul knows it lacks power and is constantly on a mission to gain such. We know the carnal soul was established at the fall of man. It was established as a counterfeit or replacement for what we should have had. Now when I walk by the spirit it is as if I am back in the garden of Eden in unity and oneness with God through Jesus His son.
I am now becoming aware of the spirit life being who we are and live out of that new default. Now we have had a lifetime of a soul default with a soul that is chasing its needs, power is the bottom line of what the soul wants. That is probably why a psychopath and narcissist are all about themselves they live in the pure power of the soul and can manipulate and hurt to get their own way. The soul wants power through control, really the soul is psychopathic and narcissistic in its pure form. Explaining why much of soul religion is all about our needs being met, it is psychopathic. If churchianity religion is honest it needs people to meet its needs.

If we walk in the soul we need God to use us, chasing feelings of acceptance, love, pleasure, power etc. Like a psychopath it is impossible for a person trapped in such soul power to ever see this. They may see it in others but never themselves. This soul defaulted believer needs constant movement to feed the soul. But in the Holy Spirit I do not chase a manifestation “I am”. The medical world says “worldwide there has never been a case of a psychopath ever changing or being changed” and “it is impossible for a person to ever see they are a psychopath”. I do believe it is a great representation of a soul believer. They can never see the souls greed for power without a movement of the Holy Spirit. Maybe that helps us understand why when we chase manifestations we are firmly rooted in the soul. Needing manifestations to feed something in us. When chasing manifestations an individual feeds into a psychopathic soul. When walking by the spirit I am no longer a manifestation chaser I understand identity and are revealed in Christ. So now a spirit life would consist of just living and enjoying life. That life will have all the manifestations of the spirit flowing through it as the moment reveals. A spirit default individual may not even be fully aware of a goose bump moment they are just being who they are.

The spirit is our new default and out of the spirit 1 Corinthians 13 flows. Not by work but by the very nature of who and what we are now we walk by the spirit. People can read the bible or 1 Corinthians 13 as a psychopath of the soul looking for what’s in it for me. Or when they read according to the spirit all they see is identity, I look in a mirror dimly and see who I am. A spirit believer is being revealed. A spirit believer when reading the bible does not see what they want to be, they see who they are. When they see who they are it is illuminated in their life and they now see the outworking of such around their life.

For maybe the first time today see how broken a man’s souls is. It expects blessing to feed a psychopathic soul and religion of the soul. In soul power an individual fails so many times their life has been beaten down and limited to the ability of the soul. So let’s walk the freedom of the spirit. It is only through the spirit we can see the true nature of the soul and understand we are free from such power when living a default of the spirit. Time we allowed change, time we allowed our spirit to flow in rhema power from Jesus. You see if I chase blessing I am in the soul and will always limit such to the soul. The term “born again” can be no greater description of a spirit default. To be “born again” means the soul default of sin has died in Christ and now a fresh baby has arrived. A fresh baby in a new world of discovery. Discovering the tastes, smells and ways of the spirit life. A spirit baby now has a spirit default and the old psychopathic soul default is dead. Now as a born again man I must allow the psychopath to remain dead and live the new life. A life of spirit revealing and discovery. FROM TODAY no longer look for spirit blessing and contain it with the soul. Be blessing, blessing is who we are, it is our nature, it is life in the spirit. Stay in the babies new life and let’s stop filtering our new world of discovery back through a psychopathic soul. If on the other hand I walk the steps of the spirit that materialize in front of me I can be at rest I will never go astray and will in fact walk the blessing “ I am”. I now expect increase as it is who I am not what I do that defines me.

A great example as we discover this together is what happened Friday. A brother called me who we have not seen in a long time. “He asked is your car broken down?” God was telling him it was but it was not as yet. I hung up the phone and to be honest never gave it another thought. It was not until the next night when my van stopped on the side of the road that I remembered the call. We met together the next day and he gave me a car. Now my soul had nothing to do with that blessing I was not thinking cars and did not expect a car, but out of the spirit flowed life and a car happened. This I understand, we must allow our previous soul failings we have tried to transfer into a spirit life to fall from us and as we are born again live the revealing. A car was revealed and the soul never participated or took ownership.

So the soul wants the power to bless it is jealous of the spirit and the spirit just releases blessing at the most unusual times, as that is who the spirit is by nature. I can only add insult to injury by saying we have broken down lives that only a work of the Holy Spirit can build a new. Notice I did not say restore, there is nothing to restore we never lived utopia. But now in the spirit I am being built a new, my challenge is to relax and be built. There is nothing I can do but say YES.

God is not restoring or blessing me He is revealing me. Since salvation and the filling of the Holy Spirit He made me a new. Now I must stop looking to my soul understanding of that and “BE” the spirit. Each moment of the day as I allow an awareness of who I am in the spirit man. I am seeing change and natural needs are being met by things just coming to that spirit truth. We have spent a lifetime limiting ourselves to a though of tomorrow and have missed the life of now altogether. Be realistic ask yourself are you a spiritual man or are we a spiritual child who is growing, lacking understanding of our true identity and always needing someone to reassure us spiritually or lead us or …..?

I am blessed to see this morning how much I have made a life of blessing and contained it in the soul. This baby just found a new taste as he did what the bible said. “Taste and see that the Lord is good” now I am chewing!

Freshness of today

If Jesus forgives our sin and we spend our life trying to get better then does this not contradict. Of course sin should not reign in our mortal bodies but there is a higher understanding of how God views us.
Remember the bible tells us without Jesus we are dead in sin. Obviously that death is spiritual. So we understanding a true believer as the bible says must worship in spirit and truth. What that begins to look like we discuss in this recording.

We are discussing the trouble a group of religious folks are having understanding beyond their religious bounds.

CLICK HERE – Straight talk on differences between religion and a life of spirituality

Comments from the recording.

Thanks Scott I enjoyed the recording. I don’t know if you have brought this up before or not but… I love the scripture in Hebrews 6 that list the foundational truths. One being repentance of dead works. Christians forget they don’t get judged at the end with the world for their sins they get rewarded for their works. Our ‘sins’ are now just called dead works. Things that the Holy Spirit reveals to us that are not from the tree of life, things that aren’t producing LIFE. That are dead. We simply need to turn from that behavior back to life. We forget that it was impossible for man to fulfill the 10 commandments, ie don’t murder. Yet now it is, don’t call someone stupid or you murder them. Don’t commit adultery, yet now it is, don’t look with lust or you have committed adultery. Living by the Spirit is a higher standard than the 10 commandments where. It would appear then that this is making things harder for man to please God, if you are living by works. But it is proof that living by the Spirit produces such life in us it is possible to fulfill the 10 commandments and more because of the work of Jesus and the Spirit of Life at work in us.
I also love the story of Jesus washing the feet of the disciples. Peter wants all of him washed and Jesus tells him it’s not necessary he is already clean, however he has dust on his feet that need washing off. We are like Peter we have relationship with Jesus yet are deceived to think we are still dirty. But we are not, we may have a little dust on our feet from the path we have walked. This dust gets on us just because we live in this sinful world and it’s influences sometimes affect us or entice us to walk a wrong path. All we need to do is shake it off through the simple yet powerful act of repentance. Turning back to think God’s ways. As a man thinks so he is
Love you BRO
Janine

Hey, I have to listened to half the recording. It’s good… Peter has a real good grasp of where the church is and what it all really means. Scott as always you have a great understanding of what God says through his word and together you illuminate what God has truly done thanks to the Spirit talking through you both. I love what you have highlighted in the fact that sin is done… We are new people IN Christ Jesus who is perfect and without sin. I like the fact you have highlighted the fact that legalistically we crucify Jesus on a regular basis because we simply don’t believe that God has forgiven us, in the natural in the carnal we look at ourselves and say, we aren’t good enough… The temptation is too strong so therefore I shall sin and it will be ok… Grace will cover it and anyway I can always take communion and it will be dealt with. I am sorry to say I have lived like this… This I believe is because the church hasn’t got a grasp on the true grace and freedom of Christ. The sacrifice of our savior has done it all… Past, present and future. Churches still bring legalism into today’s society because they think that this is the best way to get results from a misbehaving people in a misbehaving world. This isn’t the case, allow the people to receive the revelation of Jesus’ death and resurrection, then allow them to be baptised both in water and by the Spirit and then entrust them to who..? A king? Governor? A pastor? No, entrust them to God. This is where the people went wrong in the first place, they didn’t want to be ruled by God, they wanted a man or men because its easier to get away with things under man. What I mean is, the person in charge is flawed so its ok if I mess up. This was truly Old Testament thinking… Although the power of the leaders corrupted them and the rules began to grow and their lives were never easy after that… Always struggling to get back to being right. This is why God brought in different sacrifices so they could atone for their wickedness. Unfortunately the main body of the church, not just Catholics still have this as practice today. They don’t see that Jesus went once and for all to the cross and died. Pouring His blood out once and for all to cover all sin. Jesus did say, take the bread and wine and do this in remember acne of me… This is not to put Christ back onto the cross or to use as a forgiveness tool. But as a celebration and reminder that one time Jesus did go to the cross, His body was broken and His blood shed in the perfect sacrifice that allows me freedom to have a relationship with my creator and Father in Heaven! This sacrifice allows God to give us His Spirit to join with us and be one with us as He so desires and has desired ever since the first people. This now is when we are free to be eternal men and women of God to do all the things He wants for us… And in this world, to help others by bringing them back to Him, all Christians through understanding and non Christians by reminding them He is out there waiting for their return. This of course is part of our Spirit life we live, as well as having the best koinonia of all, with each other and with God Himself. All made possible through the Spirit given revelation of Christ’s one sacrifice, forgiveness and grace. And I loved what Janine wrote about the dust on our feet, a great illustration that helped me understand more of why we don’t need a full body wash when we are walking in the Spirit but that sometimes the dust of this world, clings to us as we walk with God.

Dan (England)

I personally have never heard some of this before it just came out as I wrote it. I welcome comments and will add more later.

In my reading of the scriptures Paul came on the scene as part of Gods wonderful plan. The day of Pentecost had happened and the men who were present were incredible men of faith. I do see that in their fight to understand and live their new paradigm some religious patterns were made around them which did take away from the intended purpose of Pentecost. So let me start at the day of Pentecost. Peter stands after the Holy Spirit fell and declares this is that spoken by the prophet Joel, “In the last days”. Peter classified the last days as beginning at Pentecost and why not as the arrival of the Holy Spirit he understood changed everything. Peter while so absorbed in the spirit prophesied something greater than his natural ability to understand.

So as the now young and new paradigm played out in their lives God was working in preparing a very devout and religious man Saul to come on the scene.
Probably what gives some understanding is our personal experiences. As the Holy Spirit meets with us in new ways we tend to gravitate back to the old for comfort. Peter and the now apostles I suggest did the same. Some of the evidence of this I have mentioned in other emails. For one they limited the Holy Spirit to the confines of their law. The immediate evidence of this is the fact despite many languages being heard on the day of Pentecost and 3000 coming to Christ. A clear fact is they heard tongues as foreign languages, so foreigners were there and if 3000 came to Christ some were foreigners speaking other languages. How they dealt with that I have no idea. But there was no interview to make sure you were a Jew before receiving Christ. So foreigners were in the crowd who came to Christ. Touched by the Holy Spirit Acts 1:8 immediately came into effect. The were witnesses to the whole earth.

A further thought the foreign languages that came as tongues was not just about tongues it was about the Holy Spirit going to all man. The apostles missed this point and later a sheet had to come from heaven to Peter full of animals to help him understand what really happened at Pentecost. Think about it what an offense at Pentecost to worship God in foreign languages. The then disciples missed the fact God made all men clean at Pentecost. This I understand when the spirit fills us it is too much to comprehend in our mind and too much to live out of in a complete way. The disciples had so much going on they needed further revelation later to make all men clean.

The new and expanding revelations and spiritual encounters must have been incredible. So much so they met every day and went from house to house to absorb and be koinonia. Discovery was alive and nobody wanted to miss out. Something we are seeing on an increasing scale.

Add more here later……

So let’s step in later in Acts. Now we read Peter is classified as the one with the gospel for the Jews and Paul for the gentiles. This is something I suggest they fabricated themselves to please their previous religious ways. The Holt Spirit came and in an instant totally transformed everything they had ever known or been. As spiritual as these men were they still had a carnal man and a soul and that soul man drew them back to what they had always known, religion.

But God had a plan, and Saul comes on the scene. Saul revels to us later by his own admission he was the most religiously qualified of all the apostles. But to find Christ he is knocked from his horse and has an encounter with Christ. He is now free of Judaism but in his new freedom he is now limited to a new system that was forming around him. As these wonderful men of God tried to understand how a spirit life worked out around them and in their lives decisions were made that revealed the creation of a new religious ways. Religious ways that I see as contrary to koinonia and the wind of the spirit. Paul tells us a man of the spirit is like the wind and goes where nobody knows. So an example of the religious ways was Saul’s life and how we read he was sent on mission trips by his koinonia friends who are struggling with making patterns for comfort. Acts 9 Saul is sent to Jerusalem with Barnabas and then to Antioch where he remains for 14 years. So from Galatians we read Saul had a total of 17 years in koinonia that in my understanding was being limited.

In Acts 8,9 Saul is part of a religious fast, something he would never do again and as a result by the grace and mercy of God he was now launched out in his own spirituality. He had become a spiritual man and would never again limit his spirituality or koinonia. The change was so dramatic Saul allowed his name to be changed to Paul ( the small). To me right as the spirit filled new church was struggling with religious structure God sends Paul to be a boost back to the spirit and koinonia. This is evident by the struggle Paul experiences in Galatians 3 at the hands of the men sent by James. We know James is the leader of the church in Jerusalem and in Acts 15 Paul goes to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem about the problem in Galatians caused by James men, men from the brethren in Jerusalem. Now like we all do when struggling with soul we contradict and don’t even see it, James stands in Acts 15 and contradicts himself. Firstly he denies sending the men that Galatians tells us he sent and then he does the very thing the men who came to the Galatians did anyway. He gave them the law with the rest of the leaders in Jerusalem. Remember James says “tell the gentiles refrain from blood sexual immorality and things sacrificed to idols”. That is the law and a direct contradiction to Paul’s revelations he is living and a direct refusal to see the very thing they are having the council about. These men just answered in the soul and missed their contradiction. Paul went back to and later wrote the rest of Galatians dealing with this contradiction or religious idea. You see the Holy Spirit is the teacher and reveals to us the truth, not laws as any in the spirit understand.

You could present a clear case here that Paul is now classified as an apostle to the gentiles and Peter to the Jews something God never said, the men did. Remember at Pentecost the Holy Spirit was in all languages now connecting all men to God. The statement on their mission was something that helped them reconcile their differences. You see if Paul is the wild man to the gentiles he is OK to be lawless but when I say my job is for the religious then I have an excuse for religion creeping into my methods. Understand these men loved each other and were in koinonia but there were still soul struggles with religion of the past.

So Paul really takes the stage now after 17 years and walked in the spirit giving us beautiful books like Corinthians. Paul was a man of incredible character and strength. God had forged that character in his soul from birth. The passion and strength he had for excellence was now active in his soul via the spirit to keep koinonia on track.

Paul is never found to plant churches as some may think. Paul travelled as the spirit sent him and imparted the life of Christ. He had koinonia everywhere he went and that is why when we read his writings he takes great care to send his love to the folks he knew in each place. You see in koinonia we ache to be together with those who complete us but the understanding need be there we must go to the whole world and make disciples who will be koinonia and part of the bride of Christ. I miss those who are me in koinonia.

This morning as I read my bible I am understand a little more of the Apostle Paul’s life. It is in Acts 13 the transition from Saul to Paul occurs. Saul was a Hebrew name and probably one that Saul had taken great pride in. After all we know Paul was educated by a great Hebrew teacher.
Prior to Acts 13 Saul was sent out by the brethren Acts 9:30. After Acts 13 he goes out by the Holy Spirit. To me it seems there was a coming of age for Saul and then he allowed his name to be Paul, a name from Roman decent. Paul tells us in Philippians 3:8 Paul counts all things as rubbish. I think it deserves our spiritual attention to understand the transition or transformation of this man.
Galatians 2 we read Paul was in Antioch for 14 years before telling us he received revelation and now went out in revelation.
Seems to me Saul is like many today in the Spirit filled church. They received the Holy Spirit and have been involved with a church system ever since. That system tells them where to go and who to be with. Saul even did missions as Saul, being taken to Antioch Acts 11:26 and sent to Jerusalem by the church in Acts 11:30. That is not necessarily a problem but after 14 years Saul turned his back on everything he was and allowed a new identity. He became Paul and do not underestimate the change here. To me he is saying I was Saul a Hebrew and religious and with heritage and now I have received revelation I am Paul a Roman name. Saul means desired in Hebrew and Paul means small or little in Roman. So Saul understood he knew nothing or there was nothing of value from his years of religious study and in the revelation of that names himself Paul and starts again.
So there are three stages in Paul’s life. The first was religion devoid of the spirit, persecuting Christians. The second was spirit filled without revelation of his own. The third was revelation knowledge and that took him to the end. I have seen Paul’s transition from religious to the spirit before but glossed over the transition from Saul to Paul. His change came when revelation came and that revelation came through the context of what I will call ”spirit filled religion” something that is offensive to a Paul but comfort to a Saul. Acts 13:2 tell us they ministered to the Lord and fasted and that was probably what many would call his ordination. Not how I see it, not sure what to call it but maybe something like the launching of his identity in koinonia. The Greek meaning of the word ministered is to be a public servant, that is, (by analogy) to perform religious or charitable function. I don’t actually see where Paul announces a fast again except when he came back to Jerusalem to be arrested and fulfilled a purification to please the religious. This supposed ordination fast could be seen as a religious function that God used anyway. Jesus did a 40 day fast being led of the spirit. In Saul’s case this is not true, it was a religious function inside a spirit filled church. Sound familiar?
But Acts 13 is the end of Saul and the revelation of Paul born out of Saul getting a revelation he is nothing and knows nothing. So Saul is renamed Paul the small or little and goes out in revelation and never looks back.
God is saying there are many who have had the conversion of Saul and are still living in the identity of Saul. They live as Saul “the desired”, devoid of the revelation in the spirit that imparts to their soul the rhema word or living word they are Paul the small or little. Many try to make the small and little a movement of the soul and all they have is religion. To see small or little is a gift from the Holy Spirit that comes by revelation and is only lived from the Spirit.
So many are camped out in stage 2 of Saul’s life. They have no identity of their own and sit in a Spirit filled environment. Sure within that “spirit filled movement” or system they may have identity but independent of that they do not. Revealing the fact they have no identity in koinonia only in relationship. For 14 years Saul lived in Antioch because he was sent there by the brethren and remained. But then through a religious fast the Holy Spirit moves and BAM, Saul now becomes Paul and is never the same.
Yes we can, stop being Saul, stop living as Saul grow up and let the revelation of God show us we are Paul. No longer draw strength from the system that surrounds us but draw from our identity in the Holy Spirit and strength from koinonia with others and God. Now that does not mean we discard the system we just live the revelation. Ask yourself today, which part of Paul’s life am I living.
1. The religious and ignorant of the spirit.
2. In the Spirit but with a lack of Holy Spirit identity and revelation of where that will take me.
3. In revelation, I am now a Paul with a strength and identity of my own that carries me forth. Remember he did not isolate he was koinonia. But any in koinonia have to have their own identity or they are not koinonia

It is always amusing what we convince ourselves shows we are free. To some it is home church, others it may be donuts in church or coffee or re-arranging the chairs etc. The fact is, many see the need for change, but in reality getting to the place of change is something else. External changes are not necessarily a Holy Spirit move. We can say “I am church” and largely that can be a set of words covering a system we have convinced ourselves is more free than those without the words. So people become the “I am church” church, totally convinced they are better now they have camped out in some revelation God may have given them. So I was thinking about this and wanted to express a few thoughts about what where God is going with all this in our lives.

Firstly the fact we say there needs to be change and donuts or similar need to be involved just highlights the fact people /pastors/ leaders know they are in the wrong place and wrestle to understand where they are supposed to be. As leaders from church systems we all struggle to “let go” convinced God has us there to lead. Often leaning on the arm of the flesh to live that out.

So yesterday a group gathered again in a home for a meeting. They desire koinonia and are wonderful people but maybe a chunk of what God is doing went unnoticed. Arriving 20 minutes late for the meeting Matt and Peter who God had sent, finally arrived and Matt in his usually relaxed manner just walked into a room full of people waiting for ministry and sat down. Pushed the coffee table aside lay back on the sofa and proceeded to take a nap. I guess Peter noticed the horrified looks on some of the faces and ministered to those in shock. Their guest minister had just walked in late and kicked back in front of everyone for a nap. Now he did not lay there long and about 7 hours later the meeting was done. You see some of these folks just keep coming back. It is not like anything some of these seasoned believers have seen before and some are trying to process and categorize what is going on while others are just being changed. Drawn to the Holy Spirit in the place they come but how to digest the spiritual food is an enigma to some.

Lives continue to be changed but not how we would try and plan or do. One man in the meeting has been studying with the Jehovah witness organization. He was so touched by the meeting he said something like. “I have been looking for the Holy Spirit all my life and now finally I have found him”. Another lady was back for her 3rd time. Many times she had been a distraction in the past but now she is a great blessing. The guys commented how she really added to the meeting and was a joy to have there. Some had driven up from the Cape to be in the meeting and one lady was used of the Holy Spirit to pray for a Roman Catholic man who keeps coming back. He was touched in a powerful way. I am saying all this to say, the Holy Spirit fell and 7 hours later people went home. The remark was that those 7 hours seemed like minutes.

So here is the punch line. You can’t organize koinonia just let it happen. If it is in your house then relax don’t plan anything just let God be God. We have talked a lot about just relaxing in God and “being” the Holy Spirit in you. So understand in koinonia we relax in God and each other. If the Holy Spirit is present incredible things happen and we need to stop trying to plan that or make that happen and learn to relax. As ministers we say “but what if nothing happens” and my reply is, then great let nothing happen, go home and relax. Koinonia is a gift from God and it causes us to give up control kick back and enjoy each other while enjoying God. Did you get that, true koinonia means we enjoy each other as much as God. Troubling to some I know but only to those in the soul counterfeit for koinonia. Let me say this one lady I have not been in a hurry to fellowship with previously, we find ourselves looking forward to fellowshipping with, in the Holy Spirit. She is not changed she is being transformed like none I have personally seen before. From religion, the Spirit is being illuminated in her life and the light is dazzling. So most miss the point, thinking there must be a plan and in our small mindedness miss the point God has a plan and it is not our job to find it. Our joy comes in “being it.”

Love it.

This is what I experienced as a new Christian I had addictions that just dropped off,BECAUSE I MEET JESUS.I remember spending a week in my room smoking dope and worshipping Jesus.
I knew something was different in my heart and I knew it was Jesus all the pain,hatred etc..was gone,it just wasn’t there…..

I have just been thinking of that time of meeting Jesus 25 years ago in that place of no religion,no church nothing but Jesus man that was so freeing…..hmmm just his presence.
And from there I wanted to read the word…were did the desire to do that come from.
I wanted to tell my mates about Jesus….We’re did that come from…..AND I DID NOT WANT TO SMOKE POT ANY MORE….WE’RE DID THAT COME FROM.

Yesterday I shared some of the thoughts in your email with my work mates they were sparked up man,not church going people,it was really cool.I also shared it with a Christian and most of there reply was BUT you still have to try and you can never be free cause the reality is that problem will always be there,and that sounds like magic you read something and that’s it you become free, Anyway I had to leave it there because they became a little frustrated.

I see the sin as one issue,the other is more hidden that is how do we experience God if we are continually trying to beat our sin in our own strength our own will power,our own religion….

What about this thought The smoking Lady in being in Jesus and Jesus in her has already beaten,won the battle with the smoking it is done…..

Smoking lady just has to BE IT WILL DROP OFF TO A POINT WERE AS IF IT NEVER WAS.

Scott is that Unconditional Grace/ forgiveness = justification =Righteousness of God which we ARE NOW.?

One other thought well a question WE CAN NOT TRY TO BE THE RIGHTNESS OF GOD WE ALREADY ARE or How do you turn yourself into something you already are?

Bless you bro.

Selwyn

Scott, Some thoughts today as an effect from yesterday.

Psalm 46:10 “Cease striving and know that I am God. The very firtst thing I learned in Catechism is we were created with the purpose of glorifying God. This is my hearts desire but I can do nothing except receive His life in me.

When I left the first denomination (the Lord was persuing- wooing me to faith in Him) to go to another denomination where the scripture was read It was refreshing. I was angry the first one didn’t know or teach the truth. After learning the basics from the 2nd, I read about the Baptism of the Spirit and
spiritual gifts which they didn’t know or believe in. Having a Form of religion with out the power, turn away from such 2 Tim 3:5.
So many have their identity in a religion. The focus is in self and how well we are doing on a soul- roller coaster. This leads to self righteousness like that of the Pharisees. We strive and judge and condemn. All he things the Lord warns against.

As a small child I remember respecting, honoring, loving my parents, never wanting to hurt them. I knew I was dependent, loved and cared for and desired to please. The focus was them and I was care-free! As religion takes hold it changes our dependency, our identity, our focus from the Lord and all He has accomplished for us out of His love, to focusing on ourselves. If we can save and sanctify ourselves, why would we need God? And more importantly, what would have been the purpose of Christ’s death on the cross for us?

Today, I feel righteous anger once again, that I have been lied to, deceived. The truth of the true gospel is His love, His provision, His acceptance, His finished work in me. Right thinking leads to right living. The truth sets free. The more I can see God and Who He is in me, the more sin will fall away,
because it just doesn’t fit who I am in the spirit. I know nothing and can do nothing of myself. Like Paul, all I want is to “know Christ crucified and the power of His resurrection. Now I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, the hope of glory.”
My scripture of the day spoke rhema to me: I have engraved you on the palms fo my hands….Wow, He loves even me and I am secure in His love!!!!

Thanks again,
M###

So yesterday we were together in Weymouth. It was a wonderful time of fellowship and discovery. The room consisted of people many of who I had met many years ago. One man actually said Scott I have heard you before but you are a different man now. To be honest some of these people I would have classified in the past as a little spiritually unusual.

So here we were talking of the “new” God is doing. After probably 2 hours we took a break for some stew and then the discussion sparked up further and after nearly 5 hours we were standing up to leave. My take was that many of these people who knew so much about God were at a natural knowledge loss and just absorbed. It was as if time stood still and 5 hours felt like 30 minutes. It was Acts church , imparting and receiving.

One lady I am encouraged with had been challenged the week before and was back with a host of questions. She told of how she has been able to sleep all week and frankly she has always been unusual but there is a solid change in her as the Holy Spirit works. So here is a lady some have disregarded as strange, changing. I for one are amazed at what God has done in her in just a week. But now here is a lady who has changed. Almost all her questions which were many were coherent, relevant and added. God is amazing!

The most offensive thing, was said as we were leaving and was so inflammatory it was probably just as well there was only a few to hear. Myself included I was offended at what came from my own mouth and had to pause to absorb the impartation. This may sound strange, I have said stupid things before in the natural but from my spirit came a truth that is revolutionary if heard in the spirit, and death if heard by religion. “it is religion that causes you to smoke”

One lady who has smoked for years was asking if her sin breaks her fellowship. Then out of nowhere without thinking I said “it is religion that causes you to smoke” after saying that, now I was committed to try and understand my own words and I began to see a spiritual truth. I told her relax get free of the guilt that causes you to smoke, that may even mean just smoke. In that releasing of the soul guilt from religion you will now as you walk by the spirit find it will just drop off your life.

Psalm 46:10 “Cease striving and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.”

Cease striving in your soul to please the religion you have learned and know that I am God and will be exalted. This woman had testified how when she came to Christ she discovered one day her swearing had stopped. I suggested as she learned church she took control of the sin in her life and smoking just won’t stop. She has tried everything known to a spirit filled church to no avail. So relax and smoke and enjoy the Holy Spirit and watch the smoking disappear as the religion loses its grip. I guess some would hear, Scott told her to smoke and it is even worse than that I told her to relax doing it. Such would probably not hear the rest, “and as you relax and be free of condemnation the smoking will just disappear” It is not permission to sin it is freedom to be released. Remember the religious guilt drives her to a place of rest in her carnal soul, smoking. As that default changes her smoking will just fall off it is a non event. It does not matter, so why make a mountain out of a molehill. As long as she sees her sin it is 1 John 3 she does not see God. When I see God smoking just falls away.

Now that would not work with someone looking for an excuse to be carnal. She is not! I suggest that if most lived this advise it would bring problems as they are not altering their life to walk by the spirit they are just attending churchianity. As the Apostle Paul said grace is not permission to sin, if we are looking for permission to sin we have religion not a walk in the Holy Spirit. That being said, if we see our sin we have not seen God as 1 John3 tells us.

Have no doubt Jesus resisted and even before He shed His blood on the cross He had already shed it in the garden by sweating blood, the verses below reveal this.

I think what needs to be understood here is when we talk of rest it is not rest as our natural man knows. To rest in the spirit is a host of words of which abide is a small understanding of. Rest, abide, draw aside, come away are a few that come to mind readily. So “rest” red flags us because of its natural connotation, in a spiritual state I question if rest may be tied in with abiding in the throne room. So spiritual rest involves going beyond the soul outside the carnal/ soul and more than abiding it is a seating and soaking.

Jesus withdrew in the garden, I am reminded how Jesus sweated blood.

Luke 22:41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” 43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. 44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground

Christ’s struggle was between His soul and spirit and the spirit had been trained so much so the soul went into meltdown. So could we apply

Hebrews 12:4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood

Of this verse we can make a religious reading only but narrow it down too much. Have no doubt Jesus resisted and even before He shed His blood on the cross He had already shed it in the garden. We see the importance of the blood on the cross and miss the fact the blood in the garden was the real battle and event. He resisted the sin of disobedience to the point of shedding blood in His soul/carnal anguish.

So when I rest in the spirit I draw aside in the spirit. Ephesians 4 tells us not to be drunk with wine but “be being filled with the Holy Spirit” Our spirit is complete of this we have no question but why must we “be being filled” if the work is all done? Could there be a veiling of the realities of that because of our carnality? The veil has been removed and yet we can place it there again in our knowledge. Should my spirit live God in His entirety without training I would no doubt make myself a God. I would call down fire on the car in front of me and would create a few new worlds where everyone was as seemingly perfect as me and looked like me of course. There is a veiling because of the carnal man/soul, so possibly as complete as I am as a “spirit principle”, because of my flesh I am made to leak. The pull of the spiritual world (evil) around me also attacking my spirit and requiring me to “be being filled”.

So I am complete but not completely revealed

1 Corinthians 13:12 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

We see dimly the fullness of our spirit because of our carnality that enshrouds us. But then I shall know just as I am known. Spiritually I am known and complete but I see dimly and because of the fact the earth is under the natural, soul, demonic I am in a battle that Ephesians 6 talks about.

So does my spirit rest?

2 Corinthians 2:13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I did not find Titus my brother; but taking my leave of them, I departed for Macedonia.

Deserves more thought beyond the obvious

Hebrews 3:18
And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?

Hebrews 4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them,[a] not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; [c] 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”[e]

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

A training is essential by reason of use. When I use my spirit it grows in its revealing or natural capacity to this earth. I must draw aside to rest in the throne room as if I do not I cannot discern good and evil as my soul will always mimic the spirit. When I leave my soul behind and go into the throne room I see a bit clearer in the mirror of Christ. Now my soul in such times will go into a tailspin and I am reminded the reason we are even having this discussion is because of the turmoil of the soil and feeling feelings we have never felt before. In a way we have never known before.

As I am comfortable in the understanding my soul cannot enter then I am more readily available to enter the throne room. Jesus did this as He sweated blood, He went to that secret place and drew strength by resting in the bosom of the Father spiritually. Then on returning to the natural grind He was able to walk the cross. So yes our natural man can suffer from spiritual manifestations but I am also reminded our spiritual capacity is revealed more as we discern by reason of use. As I use my spirit man I know where He lives in me and can exercise him/Him. I am resting in Him and to question our completeness is carnal as trying to understand this in a carnal mind is impossible. After all how can I rest when I am complete and how can rest actually mean sweating blood, does not sound restful to my natural understanding. When I rest in the throne room the natural/soul enters feelings we have never known as it tries to understand for itself and enter and we know it cannot. So as I lay on my bed or sit in the bath or whatever and meditate on Christ I am in the throne room and resting from attack by the world systems and spirits and life. This I know when I see Him face to face I no longer have the need to draw aside.

2 Corinthians 10:5

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

A side note when meditating on the Holy Spirit. Imaginations are a powerful tool of the soul. Not to be confused with Spiritual vision. John on Patmos knew spirit from soul. He had his senses exercised to know soul from spirit. So when in the spirit don’t let the soul create scenarios that are not true. Such as “I feel flat” imaginations are not just flying hot dogs or seeing yourself with a body like mine. They are lies of the soul that cannot understand spiritual truths.

Last night as we sat at Peters with a couple an important key came out and I wanted to share a few observations. The comment from this precious couple who are entering this move of the Holy Spirit called “being” was. “I now understand I don’t know anything”. What a move of the Holy Spirit in a life to understand in all my religious knowledge I know nothing. That is where God moves and truly He has been and is with this couple. They bought a man with them from the previous night, Saturday.

Saturday night some men from the koinonia here went and shared with a group of hungry seekers in another area. 5 hours later as midnight came they slipped out and went home. No they did not talk for 5 hours and bore everyone, God was moving and when He moves changing lives nobody wants to leave. It had been a night full of Holy Spirit impartation.

One lady was offended at what they had said but she called today and I want to encourage you with her words. She said how she did not like what they said but went home and something had happened in her spirit. She slept all night and something had changed. Now she is calling to try and understand what had changed in her and ask where she can get more. I guess during the time together one man stopped the discussion and told her she has religious pride and needs to be quiet and listen. She was offended but as it was in Holy Spirit love, she listened. Now her life is changing and she called to say

“I now see I do not have what you are saying and I want it. You all have something I think I have but do not”, she was desperately asking “how do I get it I want what is going on.”

The obvious answer offended as well and it was to stop trying to rationalize the words and relax and let God be God. That may sound easy but it is not for us who have had religious pride and good works. So Sunday we celebrated Lara’s birthday at Peter and Nancy’s house and a group from Saturday drove up to be with us. Sure those that knew Lara loved her but the added reason was they are now seeing koinonia in a new way and driving a long way to get more koinonia. It was another late night but nobody minded as we all come to understand as the Holy Spirit is moving we better get accustomed to the meeting that never ends.

The life of the Holy Spirit is limitless and you always know when someone has entered as they can’t get enough. They would drive hours for more and rearrange life to be where koinonia is . It is never tiresome they/we/I allow life to stop as romance of the Holy Spirit flows. If that is not happening then all we have is religious pride. That does not mean we are better than anyone just our hunger outweighs our pride. What a gift to realize we don’t have all the answers.

My eldest son Nathan now 15 had his own powerful spiritual encounter over the weekend and as a father it is so wonderful to see him develop his own spirituality with Christ. These are amazingly wonderful times we are living in and each day seems better than the previous. It is as if the affairs of life are stopping as spirit life is revealed in koinonia.

Follow the chain from the top

Hi Scott,
Do you have a revelation of what is meant by “lukewarm” and “vomit you out of my mouth” in Revelation 3:16?
Is a lukewarm person or church “backslidden” and does to be “vomited out” mean lose salvation?
Also Rev 2:5 talks of having fallen from their “first works” and having their “lampstand removed” unless they repent.
Rev 2:20… refers to “My servants” committing “sexual immorality” and being cast into great tribulation unless they repent.
I don’t know that either of these means losing salvation but neither sounds like something to be desired.
###

First reply

Not really I do not have the final answers on this, other than to say. We cannot formulate a set of rules it has to be spirit to spirit. Is there koinonia from my spirit to theirs even when they are buried in carnality. I believe we do well to allow the love of 1 cor 13 to be shed abroad in our hearts. To flow wherever the spirit takes us and love whoever it puts in front of us. Then God can decide if they have missed the mark. I also start to understand our spirit will discern a right spirit buried in carnality or an evil spirit rejecting Christ and not able to confess Jesus is Lord.

I guess could we apply verse 20 in Rev3:16 and say these are religious people who have no knowledge of the spirit. When the whole context of Laodicea is read it could be assumed they had only religion not spirituality. A form of Godliness but denying its power.

It is hard to discount people can choose hell if they wish. Like you said probably any who care are not in danger of hell. I do think there is a point in our spiritual journey where we probably could no longer leave. We are constrained by the love of Christ. This I am confident of, as we walk newness of life Christ will reveal His heart in us and understanding will follow. I do see though that we have been carnal in our condemnation of carnality. The carnal condemning the carnal for carnality. Now it will be the spirit breathing life to the spirit via the spirit.

I sent this to the group to see what comes out.

Scott

Second reply from a pastor in Indiana

Scott Some Thoughts sent to you and will leave it up to you whether to send them on. A few ramblings but trying to sum up some points.

I think what also applies is the scripture in Luke 12:48 – where it says “to whom much is given, much is expected.” There is no way possible to come up with a line of when someone “crosses” the line from salvation to damnation because each person’s relationship with Christ is different. At it’s heart, Jesus’ message was one of patience and longsuffering however in most churches we turn it into one of damnation and hell-fire. Though, those scriptures are all elements of Christ’s redemptive story – taken out of context all they do is create condemnation.

I don’t think there is a point in any of our lives where we are “sealed” and can’t backslide however, I do believe that we reach a point of spirit based living where our ability to backslide based upon what we know and have seen is virtually zero. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, just means that what we have seen and heard in the spirit becomes such a part of us it is near impossible for us to turn our back on it. The stories we see/hear in churches of backsliders of the “person who was on fire for God and then went the exact opposite direction” are almost always people who have had a soul experience in church – not spirit. I grew up in a large Pentecostal church (3000+) that was experiencing a true move of God in it. The problem was only about 10-15% of the people were entering into the spiritual side of what was going on – the remainder we all there for a great big revival party. Consequently, many fell away because their experience was not rooted in the spirit but in the soul (goosebumps and other stuff).

This doesn’t negate the effects of sin – Galatians 5. Sowing and Reaping is an eternal law of God. If we do sin and shack up with the church secretary there are absolutely consequences from that – however we have to long focused on the consequences rather than the restoration.

I also reflect on Hebrews 10:22-28:

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I think that this directly applies to people who have enlightened much like many of us have.

There are so many scriptures which we can go back and forth on regarding backsliders, salvation and such. All have relevant applications but I think the point that we may be missing is that if people truly get enlightened and the power of the Holy Spirit is working in their lives the desire to backslide will be minimal. Yes, they may fall into sin and carnality for a minute but once we understand who we truly are in the Koinonia of Christ we will have zero desire to go back to the carnal man.

We must remember, that without the Acts 2 experience of the baptism of the Holy Ghost it’s extremely difficult to be able to survive in this world. Part of the sea change in the Spirit that we need to understand that the baptism of Acts 2 isn’t just a single experience (Which most of the charismatic church has turned it into) but a daily refilling/recharge. Much of the time we think that once someone speaks in tongues that we are all the way home with them on the teaching side – the fact is that it’s only just beginning. Remember – the book of ACTS is still being written by all of us still!

I haven’t been able to listen to all of the audio recordings but the ones that I have, most recently the one a couple days ago that was 1 hour and 45 mins long I picked up the spirit of what Scott and the others were talking about. The problem I think in explaining what we are all experiencing is that our current “church vocabularly” doesn’t fully explain what is going on. Consequently it’s hard to put into words and come up with a framework for what we are experiencing.

I’ve been in the Church for my whole life and the older I get the more understanding of God’s longsuffering and grace I see. When I was 21 and fresh out of Bible College and preaching revival meetings I would preach nothing but hell fire and damnation but as I have gotten older I have seen more and more that all I was doing was putting people under bondage rather than giving them freedom. It didn’t mean that the scriptures were wrong, just the context and delivery was. If we teach people about life in the Spirit – I truly believe that as they get on fire the sin will truly just fall away from them.

Daniel

Third reply

Maybe I am out of line with this one but it seems to keep sitting in my spirit today. I have been asking similar questions and trying to come to term with who is in and who is out. Today God showed me some of my religious heart in this. Really why had I been asking this question at all? By my flesh standard we are all going to hell by my spirit I am excited at the prospects of new life where there has been death.

One other thought that came through today. I believe this is not clear as yet, if it was supposed to be there would be another 10 commandments in the New Testament. The religious part of us wants to know for whatever reason and make a formula to apply to lives that don’t look like ours. Maybe so we can discount some or feel superior to others. Maybe it is so we can know the boundary so as to never cross it. To me it is increasingly clear we must discern in the spirit of God through His love. Our desire for knowledge in this area is firmly placed in the soul and carnal heart of man. In the Holy Spirit we will know a man’s state and minister love to it.

Some I expect would have nothing have a glimmer of koinonia life in them we can see in the spirit. Others we expect to have something often have nothing and whether or not they will make heaven is not our decision to make or pronounce judgment on. For me I know God is drawing me to look for life and if there is no life just breathe the life of the Holy Spirit into the person and move on.

Of the fact some will not make it I am certain and maybe we understand a small part of the heart of Christ and how much that yearns for koinonia with all. To be honest I am not in a position to make new doctrines I am living a move of the spirit of God and although I understand the need for doctrine, I am coming to terms with what is happening in and around me. I question the fact we are asking this, does this reveal to ourselves we are more carnal than we like to see. I will walk the spirit and focus on the life of the spirit and know that it will change the world and we will be super surprised who will make it and who will not.

I know God has reworked and is reworking in me a love for what I always classified as lost and somewhere He will reveal the boundary if needed. To me this issue could become a side track. I will just minister the spirit wherever the soil is fertile and are content to not try to play God in my understanding of others. Not meant to condemn or put down any other persons desire for knowledge here but I for one have a conviction I need to release the spirit where churchianity has bought condemnation and separation. We all do well to view backsliders and people through the lens of the spirit. My spirit lens is being un-fogged and this question really holds no interest presently as I fail to see relevance to koinonia love. I will impart to whoever stands in front of me as this I have found out – I am astounded who receives. If I can classify one as too far gone then I would never waste my time on them but in the spirit Jesus is saying BE LIFE.

Love to all in Christ
Scott